AMG Author Interview: Joe Pulizzi & Brian Piper, Epic Content Marketing, 2nd Edition | Videogames Tech

Heidi Cohen Interviews Joe Pulizzi and Brian Piper

Epic Content Marketing 2nd Edition

Epic Content material Advertising, Second Version: Break By way of The Litter With A Completely different Story, Get The Most Out Of Your Content material And Construct A Group In Web3

Q: Joe – Why did you determine to replace Epic Content material Advertising? What do you see as an important change by way of prospects, entrepreneurs and know-how that has taken place because you wrote the primary version?

Effectively, the primary purpose is as a result of Brian Piper requested me to. That’s a real story.

The second massive purpose is that so many individuals attain out to me in regards to the first version and I instantly really feel unhealthy as a result of 10 years is a LONG TIME in advertising. There was a lot that modified and wanted altering, from Web3 to AI to Group-building to instruments and know-how.

Brian and I initially thought a minor edit was wanted, however as soon as we began going by way of it, we needed to overhaul the whole factor. The strategic framework remains to be there, however all the things else is new.

Q: Brian – I do know that you simply performed an influential function in persuading Joe to jot down a second version of Epic Content material Advertising. What did you expertise and/or see occurring within the enterprise surroundings that prompted you to behave?

I had been doing content material optimization and knowledge analytics for 18 years as a part of completely different net growth groups earlier than I learn the primary version of Epic Content material Advertising in 2014. After studying it, I instantly switched to the advertising crew on the firm I used to be with. So the impression the primary version had on my profession was one driving issue to get it up to date.

The largest issue was quantity and pace of change over the previous few years on this house. We’ve seen the rise of the creator financial system together with new applied sciences like web3 and AI that are creating new techniques and workflows for content material entrepreneurs and content material entrepreneurs alike.

Epic Content material Advertising has all the time been a handbook, a information, for content material entrepreneurs and I knew it was time to replace it to incorporate content material entrepreneurs in addition to the adjustments within the content material advertising ecosystem.

Q: With altering content material consumption habits and time-shifting, ought to content material entrepreneurs take into consideration the context during which their content material advertising seems? Particularly, do they should think about the place, when and with what system their viewers wants, finds and/or consumes their content material?


Completely. If we actually care in regards to the wants and ache factors of our viewers, we’ll make selections on how they need to greatest eat it. That mentioned, generally it is sensible for this system to do video or audio or textual content or picture as a result of the corporate has experience in that space. I imagine nice content material shall be discovered, if we promote it appropriately.


Sure! For those who’re creating content material in a spot the place your customers don’t eat content material, you’re simply shouting into the void and losing your time. That mentioned, it’s essential to create in a manner and on a channel the place you’ll be able to excel and stand out however you must know the place your customers go to eat content material and be sure you are there, directing them to what you’ve created.

For instance, if you happen to hate writing and your customers choose to eat written content material through e mail, you’ll be able to go create an incredible podcast after which re-purpose that content material into newsletters which you can ship out with calls to motion to drive site visitors to your podcast for anybody who needs the whole episode.

Q: How can entrepreneurs combine content material advertising throughout the whole buy course of, together with customer support, onboarding and constructing loyalty? Particularly, how can entrepreneurs persuade non-marketers of their group to take part in content material creation and distribution?


I might say this – don’t do it.

Discover one downside within the group the place content material advertising may be the answer. Deal with that and try this effectively for 9+ months. As soon as that’s profitable you’ll be able to transfer on to a extra built-in method. Most firms who attempt to combine from the get-go typically produce loads of mediocre content material that finally ends up getting folks fired.


Integrating content material advertising into a whole group is a good finish aim, however not the place any group ought to begin. Begin small, create a technique you’ll be able to implement and use to display effectiveness after which begin in search of methods to scale.

There are a lot of methods to make the case for content material advertising inside a corporation however one tactic that works effectively is to not promote it as “advertising” however simply inform folks throughout the group that extra content material is required to assist customers remedy their issues at completely different elements of their journey.

Workers need their specific areas to be showcased and featured so if you happen to may also help them create epic content material for his or her crew, you’re not solely serving to them be extra seen and efficient, you’re serving to the shopper navigate their journey within the house.

Q: How ought to content material advertising be built-in throughout the whole group? What can entrepreneurs do to perform this? If they’ll’t accomplish that on their very own, how can they get assist to perform this?


As a lot as I’d love to provide you a solution, the very best fashions on the market (like Cleveland Clinic or Arrow Electronics) are NOT built-in. They’ve separate teams whose sole job is to construct audiences and drive distinctive types of income.

A small firm can begin contemporary by main content-first, and the mixing naturally occurs.

In massive firms which have been round for some time, it’s almost not possible. So don’t do it. Begin it as a take a look at mission and educate the place you’ll be able to. When one other division reaches out for assist, that’s an important begin.


Nearly each a part of a corporation wants content material or places out content material, both to their finish customers or to their inside groups. All of this content material must be tied to a content material technique and flagged as a part of a content material advertising technique the place acceptable.

That mentioned, most massive organizations are typically very siloed with restricted communications between groups. If one crew has created an efficient content material advertising program, share it with management. A key to any company-wide initiative is having management assist and an understanding of the assets and time wanted to launch and maintain a content material advertising initiative.

A method that Salesforce was in a position to do that was to embed a content material strategist and editorial lead into every of their model, persona, and trade groups after which when a possibility for content material advertising arose, they had been in a position to leverage that content material, share it with different groups, and determine different potential areas of overlap or promotion. None of that may have been doable if management didn’t make it clear that content material advertising was going to be a company-wide focus.

Q: How do you see AI-generated content material altering content material advertising? Please embrace factors the place AI-generated content material is bettering content material advertising and the place AI-generated content material is hurting content material advertising.


AI instruments are simply that…instruments. Content material entrepreneurs must be testing these instruments similar to every other instruments. In the event that they may also help you creation, distribution or audience-building course of, then use them.


I imagine that increasingly more of the content material we encounter on-line shall be AI-generated and that’s going to result in plenty of mediocre content material that solutions probably the most common questions. The draw back for content material entrepreneurs is that there shall be extra content material on the market for us to compete with for consideration.

The upside is that it’s going to create extra alternatives for genuine, artistic, and strategic content material in areas the place that content material is required. It can make IRL occasions and dwell digital occasions extra precious and can encourage customers to affix communities the place they’ll work together with precise people.

I believe that AI works nice for ideation, data gathering, and analysis and may also help streamline workflows and take away most of the routine duties that we encounter.

The perfect content material advertising must be created with a deep understanding of the top aim, strategic priorities, target market, and standards for fulfillment. As content material entrepreneurs, we have to keep targeted on that and solely use AI instruments the place they add worth.

Q: As extra folks use the Web of Issues and the Metaverse, they’ll speak extra and kind much less. The place do voice and audio slot in content material advertising associated to those adjustments?


I imagine there’s a future when most search is finished by way of voice. Content material creators must be pondering now about how Google, YouTube and different platforms eat content material and current it by way of voice prompts. On daily basis this turns into extra essential.


As know-how and techniques proceed to advance and alter it turns into much more essential to grasp the content material discovery panorama and methodologies. When you perceive how content material is chosen and delivered, you’ll be able to work on optimizing your content material and messaging to supply the very best resolution to the issues your customers face.

Irrespective of how content material is distributed throughout completely different platforms, each discovery channel is seeking to present the very best reply to person questions. For those who create these solutions and know the way the channels work, you’ll be able to dominate in any surroundings.

Q: With social media platforms like Fb, Twitter and TikTok dealing with quite a lot of challenges equivalent to declining participation, management issues, and privateness points, how and the place ought to content material entrepreneurs distribute and promote their content material sooner or later?


Choose your spots.

You don’t must be all over the place. If it is sensible to be on Fb or YouTube or TikTok with an everyday collection, that’s nice. Simply know that we have now no management over these platforms, so we should always arrange processes to amass addressable audiences by way of e mail wherever we will.


Content material entrepreneurs must be specializing in owned channels like e mail and communities. These are the one locations the place there may be some quantity of management over issues like knowledge assortment and distribution. You may share and promote on rented land (social platforms) however you must all the time look to transform these audiences to maneuver to your owned land.

Q: Joe: How do you method writing non-fiction in a different way after having written a thriller novel?

Writing non-fiction includes loads of planning. For instance, Brian and I had all of the chapters organized and agreed to earlier than we began writing and modifying.

With fiction, it truly is (if I can say this) like opening a vein and bleeding onto the paper. You must stand up day-after-day and write on a schedule and the story will discover you when you’ve put in sufficient time.

Q: Brian: What was your greatest studying from writing your first printed e book? Has it modified the way you view content material advertising? If that’s the case, how?

The largest factor I discovered is that it’s loads of work. And I don’t simply imply the unimaginable period of time spent researching, interviewing, and writing, but additionally the pre-launch, launch, and promotion duties which might be concerned.

So far as the way it has modified my view of content material advertising, I might say considered one of my takeaways is that writing a e book is an incredible factor to do to assist elevate your model. It provides you quick credibility and creates quite a few alternatives.

The opposite factor I’m taking away from that is that nearly the entire strategies and techniques that we talk about within the e book are precious for all content material creators, whether or not they work for a big model or are a model of 1.

Q: What podcasts do you hearken to regularly?


  • The Breakdown by NLW (Bitcoin podcast)
  • Prof G podcast
  • Audiobooks after I run lengthy distances


  • Content material, Inc.
  • This Outdated Advertising
  • Prof G’s podcasts
  • Advertising Synthetic Intelligence present
  • Good Passive Revenue present
  • web3 with a16z podcast
  • Advertising Over Espresso
  • The Increased Ed Marketer
  • Voices of Search
  • …and so many audiobooks whereas driving.

Q: What newsletters do you learn each week?


  • Sahil Bloom’s
  • Jay Clouse’s
  • Ann Handley’s
  • Andy Crestodina’


  • Whole Annarchy
  • The Tilt
  • The Hustle
  • Morning Brew
  • The Baer Info
  • Mark Schaefer’s develop publication
  • Search Engine Roundtable
  • The Chronicle of Increased Schooling
  • Increased Ed Dive

Epic Content Marketing Authors Joe Pulizzi and Brian Piper

Thanks Joe and Brian.

Joyful Advertising,
Heidi Cohen


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AMG Author Interview: Joe Pulizzi & Brian Piper, Epic Content Marketing, 2nd Edition